See also: Connie Young CFPD Report
See also:
Connie Young Criminal Testimony
See also:
Tracey Braun Civil Trial Deposition

CONNIE YOUNG
CIVIL TRIAL DEPOSITION

Page 4

1 CONNIE YOUNG


2 being produced, sworn as hereinafter certified and

3 examined on behalf of the Plaintiffs Farrell,

4 Kleinheksel and Hill and Defendants Farrell.

5 testified as follows:

6 DIRECT EXAMINATION

7 BY MR. LIABO:

8 Q. Would you tell us your name, address and

9 social security number, please?

10 A. Connie Young, Abraham Drive,

11 XXX XX XXXX.

12 Q. And that's -- the address is in

13 Waterloo?

14 A. I'm sorry, Cedar Falls.

15 Q. What's your date of birth?

16 A. 5-27-67.

17 Q. You are married to Craig Young?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And do you have children?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. How may children?

22 A. One.

23 Q. What is your educational background?

24 A. I have a BA.

25 Q. From where?

 

Page 5

1 A. From the University of Northern Iowa in

2 teaching.

3 Q. Have you taught?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Are you teaching now?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Where do you teach?

8 A. The Waterloo Schools.

9 Q. What grade?

10 A. It's a four-five multi-age classroom.

11 Q. And is this the level that you've taught

12 at since receiving your BA?

13 A. No.

14 Q. What level have you taught over those

15 years?

16 A. I've taught third grade, fourth grade,

17 second grade, and now the four-five multi-age

18 classrooms.

19 Q. Your education was in elementary

20 education?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. That's what you were trained in?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. How long have you known Tracy and

25 Delonna Rokes?

 

Page 6

1 A. I've known Delonna for about ten years

2 and Tracy probably about nine.

3 Q. How did you and Delonna happen to meet?

4 A. At UNI, though a mutual friend.

5 Q. You were attending UNI at the time?

6 A. I believe so.

7 Q. Was Delonna attending UNI at the time?

8 A. I can't remember if she still had some

9 college left or not. I can't remember if she hid

10 or she was just working in Cedar Falls.

11 Q. You became acquainted with her you said

12 at UNI and I was just wondering if you were both

13 students there or what were the circumstances.

14 that --

15 A. I became friends with her when I came up

16 to UNI, and I can't remember if she was still going

17 to school then when I had started or not.

18 Q. Okay. And then you met Tracy a year or

19 so later?

20 A. Right.

21 Q. And that's when Delonna and Tracy

22 started going together?

23 A. I don't know when they started going

24 together. I just knew Delonna before Tracy.

25 Q. Were they married when you first met

 

Page 7

1 Delonna?

2 A. No.

3 Q. How long have you been married to Craig?

4 A. Four years.

5 Q. Did you socialize with Delonna and Tracy

6 after they were married or before you were married

7 to Craig?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And then after you and Craig were

10 together, you did things as couples?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Is Delonna one of you better friends?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. How frequently do you see Delonna and

15 socialize with her?

16 A. Probably about two or three times a

17 week. In the summer I probably see her more than I

18 do in the winter months.

19 Q. Why is that?

20 A. Because I'm not working and it's nicer

21 out, where we sit outside.

22 Q. Do you live near each other?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. How near do you live?

25 A. Probably about, I don't know, a half

 

Page 8

1 mile to a mile.

2 Q. Okay. How frequently do you and the

3 Rokeses, you and Craig and the Rokeses socialize as

4 couples?

5 A. About once a week.

6 Q. What do you typically do?

7 A. Go out to eat.

8 Q. Do you often go out with other couples

9 as well? In other words, there may be two or three

10 couples going out together?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Are the Bradfords among the group?

13 A. They're our friends, but they don't go

14 out to eat with us very often.

15 Q. What about the Brauns?

16 A. Not very often.

17 Q. Do you go to Brooster's as couples

18 together from time to time?

19 A. We haven't been for a long time.

20 Q. Prior to October of 1996 was Brooster's a

21 place that you and the Rokeses would go as

22 couples from time to time?

23 A. Yeah, every once in a while.

24 Q. When you were out socially together as

25 couples, I assume that everybody would drink

 

Page 9

1 socially, drink alcoholic beverages socially?

2 A. Not everyone.

3 Q. Were there nondrinkers among the group?

4 A. At times.

5 Q. Was Tracy Rokes ever a nondrinker?

6 A. Not that -- I can't think of a specific

7 time.

8 Q. What about Delonna, was she ever a

9 nondrinker?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. On those occasions when you went out and

12 there was drinking amongst the group, did you ever

13 see Tracy Rokes intoxicated?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. How frequently would he become

16 intoxicated, from what you could observe?

17 A. I don't understand -- based on what -- I

18 guess I'm not clear what your question is.

19 Q. How often did he get intoxicated from

20 what you could observe?

21 A. Not very often. I don't know.

22 Q. Okay. Well, you see Delonna in the

23 summer two or three times a week and during the

24 winter a little less frequently, you go out as

25 couples maybe once a week, so you have a

 

Page 10

1 substantial amount of contact with the Rokeses and

2 Tracy; correct?

3 A. Correct. Right.

4 Q. Of those times when you would see Tracy

5 and see him socially, you know, 40, 50 time a year

6 or more, how many of those times would he be

7 intoxicated?

8 A. I guess I really don't know how to

9 answer that question. You know, a lot of times

10 during the week when we see each other, no one

11 drinks. I don't know how to answer that question.

12 Q. Well, if you see Tracy socially 50 times

13 during the year -- is that a fair number, that you

14 might see him 50 time during the year?

15 A. That's fine.

15 Q. Okay. Would he be intoxicated five

17 times, ten times, fifteen, twenty, thirty times out

18 of the fifty?

19 A. Five.

20 Q. Five times out of the fifty?

21 A. Probably.

22 Q. Okay. What about Delonna, how many

23 times out of the times that you would see her

24 during the year would she be intoxicated?

25 A. A little more than that, I guess. I

 

Page 11

1 mean as to give a number, like I said, with either

2 one of them I don't know.

3 Q. Do you think Delonna would be

4 intoxicated or you would see her intoxicated more

5 than Tracy?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. When you saw Tracy intoxicated, what did

8 you observe that led to the conclusion -- your

9 conclusion that he was intoxicated?

10 A. He was louder and like gigglier and

11 speech not quite as usual.

12 Q. When you say speech not quite his usual,

13 what do you mean?

14 A. Slurred.

15 Q. Slurred. Did he talk more?

16 A. Yeah.

17 Q. Did he talk more rapidly?

18 A. I haven't noticed that.

19 Q. Did he interrupt people more or talk

20 over people more?

21 A. No, I don't think so.

22 Q. Okay. When you would see him

23 intoxicated, where was it usually that you were?

24 Was it in a bar, was it in each other's homes,

25 somebody else's home? Where would it be?

 

Page 12

1 A. In a bar.

2 Q. Did you ever see him intoxicated at

3 Brooster's?

4 A. Not that I can recall.

5 Q. Or Celebration's, either one?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Okay. What about Delonna, how does she

8 get? What about her demeanor or appearance that

9 would cause you to conclude what she was

10 intoxicated?

11 A. She gets louder, gigglier, and also her

12 speech is more slurred.

13 Q. In either case, either in the case of

14 Tracy or Delonna, when they were intoxicated in

15 your opinion did they have trouble controlling

16 their movements, stumbling, staggering, that sort

17 of thing?

18 A. Not Tracy, but Delonna I have seen like

19 that, yes.

20 Q. From what you could observe of Tracy,

21 even though he maybe had had too much to drink, he

22 would be able to appear by the way he walked not to

23 be stumbling or having trouble with controlling his

24 movements?

25 MR. BEVEL: Objection as leading.

 

Page 13

1 But you can answer.

2 THE WITNESS: Could you please repeat

3 that?

4 (The reporter read the last question.)

5 A. Somewhat.

6 Q. Okay. Were there ever times when you

7 were around Tracy or Delonna what you were

8 concerned about their ability to operate a motor

9 vehicle because they had been drinking?

10 A. Delonna.

11 Q. But never Tracy?

12 A. There have been times when I have seen

13 Tracy were I didn't think he should.

14 Q. Did you ever say anything to him about

15 driving on those occasions?

16 A. Not that I can -- no.

17 Q. Did you ever on those occasions suggest

18 that he call a cab or offer him a ride home?

19 A. Not that I remember.

20 Q. Okay. Do you remember October 4th,

21 1996?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Tell me about your day that day.

24 A. I went to work. On the way home from

25 work I stopped at the Rokeses and then we were

 

Page 14

1 talking about what we were going to do that night.

2 And then I went home and talked to my husband, let

3 him know what we were going to do, and then we went

4 out to Brooster's. And then we left and my husband

5 and I stopped at McDonald's on the way home to eat

6 and we went home.

7 Q. Okay. Where had you been working that

8 day?

9 A. At school. Teaching.

10 Q. Where?

11 A. Lowell Elementary.

12 Q. Where is that located?

13 A. University Avenue between the

14 Administration Building and Mama Nick's Pizza in

15 Waterloo.

16 Q. Okay. And school got out when?

17 A. We can leave about 4 o'clock. So the

18 kid gout out at 3:35, 3:40.

19 Q. And you left school around 4 o'clock?

20 A. Probably not. I never leave right away.

21 Q. Sometime after 4 o'clock?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And where id you go from there?

24 A. To Rokeses' house.

25 Q. Why did you do that?

 

Page 15

1 A. That was just something that was typical

2 for me to do, just stop by to see what was going

3 on.

4 Q. It was typical for you to do?

5 A. Uh-huh.

6 Q. Yes?

7 A. Yes. It was.

8 Q. That was just kind of the relationship

9 you had, you would be going home from work on a

10 Friday night and you would stop by to see what

11 Delonna and Tracy were doing?

12 A. Or it could be any other day of the week

13 too. Just drop on by.

14 Q. All right. When you got to the Rokeses,

15 who was there?

16 A. Delonna and Tracy Braun, and I'm not

17 sue if the neighbor lady was there. And then

18 Rokeses' kids, and I don't remember if any other

19 kids were there or not.

20 Q. What was the name of the neighbor lady,

21 do you know?

22 A. Kim Schleisman.

23 Q. Kim Schleisman?

24 A. Uh-huh. Yes.

25 Q. How do you spell that?

 

Page 16

1 A. S-c-h-l-e-i-s-m-a-n-n.

2 Q. Okay. You don't know whether she was

3 there or not?

4 A. I'm not sure.

5 Q. But Kim Schleisman would have been a

6 regular at the Rokeses' house?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. She would drop in on occasion as well?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. All right. When you arrived sometime --

11 when was that, around 4:30 or thereafter, shortly

12 thereafter?

13 A. Probably about a quarter to 5.

14 Q. All right. Could you tell whether or

15 not anybody at the Rokeses' house had been drinking

16 alcohol.

17 A. I don't remember.

18 Q. Okay. You didn't see anybody drinking

19 beer, wine or any other alcoholic beverage?

20 A. They may have. I really don'[t remember.

21 Q. Okay. How long were you there?

22 A. About an hour.

23 Q. Okay. Did anybody at the Rokeses' house

24 while you were there have an alcoholic beverage to

25 drink?

 

Page 17

1 A. I really don't remember if they were

2 drinking there or not.

3 Q. Okay. Did you have anything by way of

4 an alcoholic beverage to drink?

5 A. No.

6 Q. And you just don't recall seeing -- you

7 just don't know whether anybody else did?

8 A. I don't know. I don't remember.

9 Q. While you were there, did anyone else

10 arrive?

11 A. Tracy came home.

12 Q. Tracy Rokes came home?

13 A. Rokes

14 Q. Do you recall about what time he got

15 home?

16 A. No. It had to be somewhere between a

17 quarter to 5 and a quarter to 6, because I was only

18 there about an hour.

19 Q. All right. Did Tracy Rokes have

20 anything to drink while you were there, anything of

21 of an alcoholic beverage nature to drink while you

22 were there?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Now that you remember?

25 A. Yes. Because I remember he walked in

 

Page 18

1 and he grabbed a pop out of the refrigerator and

2 went and sat on the couch.

3 Q. I'm just curious, how is it that you can

4 remember what Tracy Rokes had to drink, but you

5 can't remember what anybody else had to drink?

6 A. Because when I came -- I mean, I don't

7 know if this is the reason why or not, but when I

8 came in people were already there, and like Tracey

9 Braun, Delonna, I know that for sure, and then when

10 Tracy Rokes came in, he just said hi and went to

11 the frig and he sat on the couch.

12 Q. Did he join in the conversation?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Was the couch -- I mean, were you all

15 sitting in the vicinity of the couch?

16 A. Yes. The kitchen area was over here and

17 then the couch is sitting over here.

18 Q. I mean, that's where you were already?

19 What was that, the family room area?

20 A. There's the kitchen and the family room

21 area.

22 Q. Where the couch is? The couch is in the

23 family room?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Were you all talking with Delonna and

 

Page 19

1 Tracey Braun and maybe the neighbor lady in the

2 kitchen or the family room area?

3 A. In the kitchen.

4 Q. So when Tracy came in and got a pop out

5 of the refrigerator, he went to a different room?

6 A. But there's no wall. There wasn't a

7 wall there. It's all open.

8 Q. But it's still in a different part of

9 the house? I mean, you have the kitchen and you

10 have the family room and there's some distance

11 between the kitchen and the family room?

12 A. There was probably from me t you away

13 from where I was standing and where he could have

14 been standing.

15 Q. Are you telling me you saw him get this

16 pop out of the refrigerator?

17 A. I just recall him doing that, yes.

18 Q. So your testimony is you did see him get

19 the pop out of the refrigerator?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Was it a can or a bottle?

22 A. I don't know. And my assumption would

23 be a can, because that's what they always have or

24 usually have at their place.

25 Q. How do you know it was a pop and not beer?

 

Page 20

1 A. I can't answer that. I don't know.

2 Q. Are you sure it was pop and not a beer

3 can?

4 A. Yes, I am. But I mean if you ask me how

5 I know for sure, I don't know what I would say.

6 Q. Well --

7 A. You know, I mean --

8 Q. Do you remember the color of the can?

9 Do you remember the type of pop it was? Pepsi?

10 Coke? Sprite? I mean, do you recall any of the

11 details about it?

12 A. I think it was a Pepsi.

13 Q. Do you remember seeing the word, "Pepsi'?

14 A. Not -- probably not specifically. I

15 just guess -- I don't know.

16 Q. You've testified and you've made the

17 statement that Tracy got a pop out of the

18 refrigerator.

19 A. Right.

20 Q. And it was a can of pop.

21 A. Well, that's -- okay.

22 Q. And the question is how do you know it

23 was pop? Or are you just assuming it was pop?

24 A. I'm not assuming. I mean, the pop was

25 right where it always is on the bottom tray in the

 

Page 21

1 box of the refrigerator and that's what he went and

2 got.

3 Q. So you were able to see inside of the

4 refrigerator?

5 A. Yeah, when he opened it.

6 Q. You were watching and looking over

7 towards the refrigerator and saw when he opened the

8 refrigerator where he --

9 A. I'm assuming if I knew what he got out

10 of the refrigerator, I was.

11 Q. All right. So your testimony is you

12 have a specific recollection of seeing that it was

13 pop and not something else that he got out of the

14 refrigerator?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do they keep beer in the refrigerator?

17 A. On occasion.

18 Q. How long were you there after Tracy

19 Rokes arrived?

20 A. Probably 15 minutes to a half-hour.

21 Q. Was anything served? Was any food

22 served to any of the people there while you were

23 there?

24 A. No.

25 Q. After you left the Rokeses, then you

 

Page 22

1 went home?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And you talked to your husband?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Before leaving the Rokeses, had any

6 plans been made to do anything that evening?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. What were those plans?

9 A. To go to Brooster's.

10 Q. How did that subject come up?

11 A. Us ladies were standing there talking

12 about what we were going to do that evening and

13 that's what we came up with.

14 Q. By the way, did Delonna talk about her

15 mother while you were there at her house?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. About a heart procedure that her mother

18 was going to have?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Was Delonna upset or worried about her

21 mother's condition?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did she cry while you were there?

24 A. I don't remember if she did at home or

25 not.

 

Page 23

1 Q. Did you see her cry sometime that

2 afternoon or evening?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Where do you specifically recall seeing

5 her cry?

6 A. At Brooster's and Celebration's.

7 Q. After she had had all little bit to drink?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. All right. When you went home, you

10 talked to Craig then about the plans to go to

11 Brooster's?

12 A. Right.

13 Q. And he agreed that would be a fun thing

14 to do?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. All right. Did you eat before you left

17 for Brooster's?

18 A. I don't think so.

19 Q. Did Craig eat before you went to

20 Brooster's?

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. What time did you leave for Brooster's?

23 A. About 6:30, quarter to 7.

24 Q. Did either you or Craig have anything of

25 an alcoholic beverage nature to drink prior to

 

Page 24

1 leaving for Brooster's?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Did you have a baby-sitter that night?

4 A. No.

5 Q. What did you do with your child?

6 A. I hadn't had her yet.

7 Q. Hadn't had her yet, okay.

8 A. No.

9 MR. GALLAGHER: Took it with her.

10 MR. LIABO: That's right.

11 Q. All right. What time did you arrive at

12 Brooster's?

13 A. Around 7.

14 Q. Who was there when you arrived that you

15 knew or recognized?

16 A. I think we were the first ones there.

17 Q. Okay. Who was the next to arrive?

18 A. The Bradfords.

19 Q. How long after you got there did they

20 show up?

21 A. Probably 20 minutes to half-hour.

22 Q. Did you have anything to drink while

23 waiting for the Bradfords?

24 A. No.

25 Q. How about Craig?

 

Page 25

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What did he have?

3 A. A beer.

4 Q. Who arrived after the Bradfords?

5 A. The Rokeses.

6 Q. Do you recall about what time they

7 arrived?

8 A. Probably around 8, a little before.

9 Q. Then when did the Brauns show up?

10 A. They probably showed up another 20

11 minutes later or so.

12 Q. When the Rokeses arrived, what happened?

13 A. I don't understand what you mean.

14 Q. I understand at sometime during the

15 evening everybody split up, the gals stayed in one

16 place and the guys went over to watch the

17 World Series.

18 A. When Lisa and -- when we were there,

19 the Lisa and Bill came in and Lisa and I stood in

20 an area and the guys kind of stood in their area.

21 And that's the same when the Rokeses came in, the

22 women stood in one area and the men stood in

23 another area.

24 Q. Did you, while you were on the

25 side, see Tracy Rokes have anything to

 

Page 26

1 drink?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What did you observe?

4 A. A beer.

5 Q. How many beers did he have?

6 A. I don't know.

7 Q. You just recall seeing a beer in his

8 hand or seeing him drinking a beer, but you don't

9 know how many beers that he had?

10 A. Right.

11 Q. It could have been one, it could have

12 been two, it could have been three, you just don't

13 know.

14 A. I don't know.

15 Q. What about Delonna?

16 A. Beer. She was drinking beer.

17 Q. Do you recall how much she was drinking?

18 A. No.

19 Q. You weren't keeping a tally?

20 A. No.

21 Q. All right. What about you, were you

22 drinking beer?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you have anything alcoholic or

25 nonalcoholic to drink that night?

 

Page 27

1 A. Water.

2 Q. All right. Were you the only one of the

3 group that wasn't drinking alcohol?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. While you were on the Brooster's

6 side, did it appear to you that Delonna was getting

7 tipsy?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. How did her demeanor change that led you

10 to believe she was getting tipsy?

11 A. By her actions. Louder.

12 Q. Was she getting more talkative?

13 A. Probably.

14 Q. Talkative and loud?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. All right. Was she having trouble

17 forming words and slurring speech, that sort of

18 thing?

19 A. I don't recall. I mean, probably by the

20 end of the night. I don't know.

21 Q. Okay. And you just don't recall how

22 much she had to drink while you were on the

23 Brooster's side?

24 A. I have no idea.

25 Q. All right. At some point everybody

 

Page 28

1 moved over to the Celebration's side?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. To listen to the band?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Do you recall what time that was?

6 A. Probably around 9:30.

7 Q. Did you observe Tracy Rokes drinking any

8 alcoholic beverage on the Celebration's side?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Do you recall from your observations how

11 much he had to drink?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you see Delonna drinking on the

14 Celebration's side?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do you recall how much she had to drink?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did she become more intoxicated on the

19 Celebration's side from what you could observe?

20 A. I don't recall if it changed or not.

21 Q. Did Tracy Rokes appear to be under the

22 influence from what you could observe?

23 A. No.

24 Q. How much contact did you have with him

25 on the Celebration's side?

 

Page 29

1 A. I talked to him.

2 Q. For how long? Was it a sustained

3 conversation or a brief conversation? How would

4 you describe it?

5 A. Just off and on, you know, or we'd all

6 be talking in a group or him and I would go talk to

7 someone else and then we'd come back and talk. You

8 know, just off and on.

9 Q. All right. Did Tracy always have a beer

10 in his hand when you were talking to him?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Sometimes he'd set it down?

13 A. Or not have one. I don't know.

14 Q. I understand from your testimony that

15 based upon what you observed of Tracy Rokes, you

16 could not tell whether he was under the influence

17 or not?

18 A. I didn't feel he was.

19 Q. Could you assess whether or not he was

20 feeling any effect of the alcohol that he was

21 consuming?

22 A. I didn't think he was.

23 Q. But as you sit here today, you can't

24 tell me how much he had had to drink?

25 A. No.

 

Page 30

1 Q. How long were you and Craig on the

2 Celebration's side?

3 A. About an hour.

4 Q. Okay. What time did you leave

5 Brooster's/Celebration's?

6 A. About a quarter to 11.

7 Q. Did you see the Rokeses -- let me ask

8 you this: Where were the Rokeses when you left

9 Brooster's/Celebration's?

10 A. They were leaving too.

11 Q. You both left about the same time?

12 A. Uh-huh. Yes.

13 Q. Did you observe Tracy Rokes walk out of

14 the bar?

15 A. Not walking out of the bar, no.

16 Q. Did you see him walking towards his car?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Did he appear to have any trouble

19 walking?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did Delonna?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Was Tracy assisting Delonna in any way

24 as they walked toward their car?

25 A. Not that I recall.

 

Page 31

1 Q. When you say Delonna was having trouble

2 walking, tell me what you observed.

3 A. Just swaying a little bit.

4 Q. Did she bump into Tracy?

5 A. I don't know.

6 Q. Okay. Who drove your car from the bar?

7 A. I did.

8 Q. And why is that?

9 A. Because I didn't drink.

10 Q. Craig had been drinking?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did you think Craig was intoxicated?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Who had driven to the bar?

15 A. Craig.

16 Q. Okay. And the reason you drove from the

17 bar was because you had not been drinking and Craig

18 had?

19 A. Right.

20 Q. You didn't think Craig was intoxicated;

21 right?

22 A. Right.

23 Q. Why didn't you let him drive?

24 A. Just because I hadn't drank anything, so

25 I drove.

 

Page 32

1 Q. Did you think that was a safer way to

2 go?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. I mean, you recognize that even if

5 somebody isn't intoxicated as they may appear to

6 you, they can still be under the influence of

7 alcohol such that their judgment might be impaired

8 when they do things like drive a car?

9 MR. BEVEL: Objection. The first

10 objection is lack of foundation. Second, it's

11 argumentative.

12 Q. Let me rephrase the question. You

13 indicated that you felt it was safer, it was a

14 safer thing for you to drive than Craig to drive,

15 even though Craig didn't appear to be intoxicated

16 from what you could observe; correct?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. Do you recognize that alcohol can impair

19 someone's ability to drive a car and make judgments

20 as a driver and react as a driver, even though the

21 person is not stumbling drunk and slurring speech?

22 MR. BEVEL: Objection. Calls for

23 improper opinion and lack of foundation.

24 MR. LIABO: You still get answer.

25 MR. BEVEL: Yes, you do.

 

Page 33

1 MR. LIABO: You can answer.

2 A. Depending on how much he drank.

3 Q. Well, sure. But I mean as a general

4 statement, can you answer "yes" to that question?

5 A. There again, it depends on how much is

6 drank.

7 Q. So the answer is yes?

8 MR. BEVEL: Objection. Argumentative.

9 MR. LIABO: Why don't you read the

10 question back, Dwight.

11 (The reporter read back as requested.)

12 A. There again, it depends how much is

13 drank. If someone drinks a beer and their weight

14 and what they've ate, it just depends. I don't

15 feel like it always does.

16 Q. I didn't ask you if it always does.

17 What I asked you is if you recognize that that can

18 be the case, a person can have his or her ability

19 to operate a motor vehicle impaired even though the

20 person is not so drunk that they're stumbling and

21 slurring speech?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. That's why you felt it was safer for you

24 to drive as someone who had not had anything to

25 drink at all, as opposed to you husband Craig

 

Page 34

1 driving who had had something to drink?

2 MR. BEVEL: Objection. Leading.

3 A. Right.

4 Q. Now when you testified earlier that you

5 did not see Tracy Rokes stumbling, I believe I

6 understand your testimony to be you didn't see

7 Tracy Rokes stumbling or staggering or slurring his

8 speech, is it your testimony that the alcohol he

9 had consumed was not affecting his ability or would

10 hot have affected his ability to in some measure

11 operate his motor vehicle?

12 A. That's correct.

13 Q. And you give that testimony even though

14 you don't know how much he had had to drink?

15 A. That's correct.

16 Q. And you give that testimony even though

17 you don't know how much alcohol it would take to

18 affect him as a driver of a motor vehicle, short of

19 making him stumbling drunk?

20 A. Could you repeat that?

21 Q. You don't know ho much it would take to

22 affect him as a driver?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. All right. I mean, you know if he's

25 stumbling, but you don't know if he's under the

 

Page 35

1 influence just from looking at him?

2 A. Right.

3 Q. So is it your testimony that Tracy Rokes

4 was, in your opinion, not under the influence that

5 evening?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. It is?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Let's just assume something

10 hypothetically. Okay? Let's assume Delonna hadn't

11 had a drop to drink, no alcohol at all that night;

12 okay?

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. As the two of them left the bar headed

15 towards their car, and let's assume Tracy had the

16 same about to drink that he had; okay? As the two

17 of them left the bar and headed toward their car,

18 of the two, who would you have felt would have been

19 the safer driver?

20 A. Delonna.

21 Q. Because she hadn't had anything to

22 drink?

23 A. Right.

24 Q. And because Tracy had?

25 A. Right.

 

Page 36

1 Q. Your testimony is that you went to

2 McDonald's, you and your husband went to McDonald's

3 and had something to eat?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Was that the first food that evening

6 that you had?

7 A. I think it's the first food I had.

8 Q. Okay. And then you went home?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And I understand fro ma statement you

11 gave to the police that you heard from Delonna

12 sometime after getting home, is that correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What happened? Was this a phone call?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And about what time?

17 A. I don't remember. For some reason I'm

18 thinking after 1, but I really don't remember.

19 Q. Okay. Where was she calling from?

20 A. I think he hospital.

21 Q. And what did she say to you and what did

22 you say to her?

23 A. She had said that they had been in an

24 accident. And I asked if they were okay and she

25 said yes. And I asked if there was something they

 

Page 37

1 wanted me to do and she said no.

2 Q. Did she give you any details of the

3 accident?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Okay. Did she ask you to call anyone?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Who did she ask you to call?

8 A. I don't know. I didn't know who it was

9 when she said and I just never knew who it was.

10 Q. Did you place a call?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Why not?

13 A. Because I didn't know who she was

14 talking about and I didn't -- I just didn't know

15 who it was and she ended up never mind, or I don't

16 remember, but, no, I never did.

17 Q. Did Delonna indicate to you what had

18 happened to the other people that were involved in

19 the collision?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Did you talk to Delonna later that day,

22 which is now the 5th of October?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Did you call her?

25 A. I believe so.

 

Page 38

1 Q. Did you talk about the accident?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. As best you can recall right now, what

4 did you say to her and what did she say to you?

5 A. We were just talking about -- she just

6 mentioned the accident and where it happened. And

7 then I had said something abut the lights on

8 Greenhill and whatever that intersection is, if

9 they switch or not switch to flashing or whatever

10 some of them do.

11 Q. All right. What did she say about the

12 lights switching to flashing?

13 A. I had thought they did, and I don't

14 remember for sue if she thought they did or not.

15 Q. Did she say anything about t what color

16 light they had, what the color of the traffic light

17 was for Tracy and Delonna?

18 A. No, not that I recall.

19 Q. Anything else you can recall right now

20 about that conversation?

21 A. No.

22 (Deposition Exhibit 36 marked for

23 identification, as requested.)

24 Q. Mrs. Young, I'd like you to take a look

25 at what has been marked as Deposition Exhibit 36.

 

Page 39

1 Do you recognize that document?

2 A. Can I ask you a question?

3 Q. Sure.

4 A. Is this what -- is this what was at the

5 Police Department about a week after or whenever?

6 Q. Well, that's my understanding, but I

7 want you to take a look at it and take your time in

8 looking it over

9 A. Yes, I do.

10 Q. All right. What do you recognize that

11 document to be?

12 A. The statement that we gave to the

13 Cedar Falls Police Department.

14 Q. And when you say "we," you and Craig

15 both gave statements to the Cedar Falls Police;

16 correct?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. Exhibit 36 is your statement.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And that was given on October 7th, 1996?

21 A. It's not dated.

22 Q. Look on the first page under "Date of

23 this statement." I's up at the top.

24 A. Okay.

25 Q. There's a 10-7-96.

 

Page 40

1 A. Oh. Yes. Yes.

2 Q. All right. Is that consistent with your

3 recollection of when you would have been at the

4 police station, about two days after the collision?

5 A. Probably.

6 Q. All right. And you were there in the

7 evening?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. It says 2043 hours, do you see

10 that?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Does that correspond with your

13 recollection of when you went in there in the

14 evening?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Look on the second page, if you would.

17 the last paragraph. You state, "On 10-5-96 I

18 called Delonna in the morning to see if I could do

19 anything for them and she said no. Delonna didn't

20 go into any details about the accident at this

21 time. Craig and I stopped over at the Rokes in the

22 afternoon. I talked with Delonna and Tracy and

23 between the two of them I learned that they had

24 taken Greenhill Road."

25 Do you see that, those sentences?

 

Page 41

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Can you recall anything further about

3 that conversation?

4 A. Other than what's in here, no.

5 Q. How did Delonna and Tracy appear? What

6 did you observe about their demeanor and appearance

7 when you went over to their home in the afternoon

8 of October 5th?

9 A. They were low key. Just, you know,

10 upset. Just, you know, pretty mellow.

11 Q. Did they indicate to you what had

12 happened to the other people who were involved in

13 the collision?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Your statement goes on to say that in

16 that conversation in the afternoon "We also talked

17 about how we thought the lights at Greenhill

18 switched to flashing at 11 p. m." Do you see that?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. Who brought up the subject, if you can

21 recall, of the lights at Greenhill Road and

22 Highway 58 -- by the way, did you know that this

23 happened at the intersection of Greenhill and 58?

24 A. Before --

25 Q. Well, when you were having this

 

Page 42

1 conversation, did you understand where along

2 Greenhill Road this collision had occurred?

3 A. I'm not sure if I knew the exact point,

4 because I'm not sure if I knew which one of those

5 main roads was -- I don't know. Greenhill goes

6 this way; right?

7 Q. Greenhill goes east and west.

8 A. Right.

9 Q. Fifty-eight goes north and south.

10 A. Right.

11 Q. There's also Main.

12 A. Right. I still have a hard time

13 remembering which is which.

14 Q. But in any event, whether it was 58 or

15 Main or some other cross street, who brought up the

16 subject of the color of the lights controlling the

17 intersection?

18 A. I think I did.

19 Q. What did you say?

20 A. I think I was just asking if those

21 switched to flashing or not. I don't remember for

22 sure. I remember having a conversation, but how --

23 I'm thinking I started it, but I'm not sure about

24 that.

25 Q. Did either Tracy or Delonna Rokes tell

 

Page 43

1 you in that conversation what color they thought

2 their light was at the time of the collision?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did either of them mention or indicate

5 to you that they thought they had a green light?

6 A. No, they didn't mention that I recall.

7 Q. Did either of them indicate to you that

8 they had a flashing yellow light or a red light,

9 either one?

10 A. I don't -- I don't recall them saying

11 anything about what color their light was.

12 Q. Okay. So neither -- I mean, you had no

13 impression from talking to them what they thought

14 the color of the light was for their vehicle?

15 A. No, not that I can recall.

16 Q. Red, yellow, green, don't know; right?

17 A. That's correct.

18 Q. Flashing or steady, you don't know?

19 A. Yeah, I don't know.

20 okay. You go on in the statement o

21 indicated that "I remember telling Delonna that I

22 didn't feel Tracy was drunk and that if he was he

23 would have asked me to drive."

24 Do you see that statement?

25 A. Yes.

 

Page 44

1 Q. This is what you told -- you're telling

2 the officer that you told /Delonna this in your

3 conversation?

4 A. I must have, yes.

5 Q. And then you said: "If I would have

6 thought that Tracy was drunk I would have given

7 them a ride home." Correct?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. And you also testified to that. Do you

10 remember testifying in the criminal case?

11 A. Yeah, I remember testifying.

12 Q. All right. And do you remember being

13 asked questions about whether you would give Tracy

14 a ride home because you lived so close to each

15 other?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. All right. And you testified under oath

18 that, yeah, if he was drunk you would have offered

19 to give him a ride home; right/

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now earlier today in your testimony you

22 told me that on occasion you have seen Tracy Rokes

23 drunk; correct?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. You also told me earlier in this

 

Page 45

1 deposition that you had never offered him a ride

2 home when he was drunk. do you recall that

3 testimony?

4 A. Did I ever say never or did I say not that I

5 recall?

6 Q. Well, I think the record will speak for

7 itself.

8 A. Okay.

9 Q. Which is true, never or not that you can

10 recall?

11 A. I can't recall of a time that I have.

12 Q. Okay. You told the police and you

13 testified under oath in the criminal case that you

14 would have offered Tracy a ride home if you thought

15 he was drunk?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. Did you tell the police and did you

18 testify in the criminal case that even though in

19 the past you've been around Tracy when he was drunk

20 that you can't recall ever offering him a ride

21 home?

22 A. No. It was never brought up.

23 Q. Had Tracy ever asked you to drive him

24 home in the past when he was drunk?

25 A. No.

 

Page 46

1 Q. When you gave the statement to the

2 police that you didn't feel Tracy was drunk and

3 that if he was drunk he would have asked me to

4 drive, there was no factual basis for that

5 statement, was there?

6 MR. BEVEL: Objection. Argumentative.

7 You can answer.

8 A. There's no factual basis, but we live

9 three blocks away, we're good friends. It wouldn't

10 have been anything -- I mean, why not?

11 Q. You made these statement to the police.

12 A. Right.

13 Q. You understood that they were

14 investigating Tracy on serious criminal charges;

15 correct?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. And part of the basis for those criminal

18 charges was a blood alcohol level that had been

19 tested; correct? I mean, you were aware that he

20 had been tested for a blood alcohol level when you

21 made the statement to the police, weren't you?

22 A. I don't know. No, I don't -- I didn't

23 know that.

24 Q. Did you understand that part of the

25 basis for the criminal investigation was Tracy's

 

Page 47

1 drinking?

2 A. No, probably no. This was only a few

3 days afterwards.

4 Q. Did you understand that drinking might

5 be a factor in connection with Tracy's -- in

6 connection with the criminal investigation?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Had the police asked you specifically

9 about seeing Tracy drinking at the time that you

10 gave this statement?

11 A. I don't remember.

12 Q. The reason I'm asking you this question,

13 Mrs. Young, is that we've heard from other

14 witnesses who gave statements to the police, and

15 what they've indicated to us was they were just

16 basically asked by the police to tell them what

17 they observed.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. And that the police didn't probe or ask

20 them specific questions. They just basically put

21 down what they thought the police -- I mean that

22 the police did not lead them in one direction or

23 another. Do you recall whether that was your

24 experience?

25 A. As to?

 

Page 48

1 Q. As to what to say.

2 A. I don't understand.

3 Q. Well, I'm asking you if when you made

4 these statements about Tracy drinking if the police

5 had solicited your comments about Tracy drinking or

6 whether you just volunteered them?

7 A. I don't remember. I know up her in the

8 first paragraph on the second page I mentioned

9 something about it here too, about his drinking.

10 So I don't -- I don't remember what -- I mean, none

11 of their comments are on here and I don't remember

12 what was said between statements.

13 Q. Okay. So when you told the police, "I

14 also remember telling Delonna that I didn't feel

15 Tracy was drunk and that if he was he would have

16 asked me to drive," you don't know whether that's

17 in response to an inquiry that the police made or

18 whether that was something you just felt you should

19 put in there?

20 A. I don't know.

21 Q. And the same thing with your statement,

22 "If I would have thought that Tracy was drunk I

23 would have given them a ride him"? Again, that

24 was just a -- you don't know whether that was

25 something you just volunteered or whether it was

 

Page 49

1 something they asked you specifically about?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. I don't see anywhere in this statement

4 that you indicated that the reason you drove your

5 car home was because your husband Craig had been

6 drinking.

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. You did testify in your trial testimony

9 about how close Tracy and Delonna live to you and

10 how convenient it would have been or easy it would

11 have been for you to drive them home. Do you

12 recall that testimony?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. If you had driven them home that night,

15 what were you going to do with Craig? Were you

16 going to let him drive? Would you have let him

17 drive home?

18 A. Probably not.

19 Q. Would he have gone -- I mean, would you

20 have all gone in the same car then?

21 A. We would have went in the same car.

22 Q. And leave one car at the bar?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. have you had any further conversations

25 with either Tracy or Delonna about the collision

 

Page 50

1 other than the conversation of October 5th, 1996?

2 A. Yes, we have.

3 Q. How many conversation have you had with

4 them?

5 A. About the accident?

6 Q. Right.

7 A. I'd say probably three.

8 Q. When did those conversations take place?

9 A. Shortly after -- I'd say three to five

10 shortly after, and then before the criminal case,

11 you know, it came up again.

12 Q. Can you recall anything specifically

13 that was said in those conversations?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did Tracy ever talk about the traffic

16 lights?

17 A. No. And the conversations I had were

18 more with Delonna. Actually, I don't know if --

19 since this day I probably haven't -- maybe one, if

20 that, with Tracy.

21 Q. What has Delonna told you about the

22 accident, as best you can recall?

23 A. We -- we haven't talked in detail. You

24 know, it's been brought up every once in a while,

25 but as in specifics, you know, there's no details.

 

Page 51

1 Just basically how's she doing when it came around

2 the civil suit -- no not civil, the criminal

3 trial. I mean, we haven't discussed how it may

4 have happened or any of that type of thing. I

5 don't know how to explain how we talked about it.

6 You know, we don't get into it a lot. Just, you

7 know, "How you doing?", and that type of thing.

8 Q. Do you feel that when you gave the

9 statement to the police and made these comments,

10 particularly in the last two sentences, "I also

11 remember telling Delonna that I didn't feel Tracy

12 was drunk and that if he was he would have asked me

13 to drive. If I would have thought that Tracy was

14 drunk I would have given him a ride home," do you

15 feel that when you gave those two -- made those two

16 statements to the police that you were telling the

17 police the truth?

18 A. Yes.

19 MR. LIABO: Okay. That's all I have.

20

21

22

23

24

25

 

Page 52

1 DIRECT EXAMINATION

2 BY MR. GALLAGHER:

3 Q. Hi. I'm Mr. Gallagher and I represent

4 Tammy Kleinheksel. I maybe have have a couple of

5 questions.

6 You told Mr. Liabo that you had five

7 conversations and you couldn't remember the

8 specifics. Do you remember generally what those

9 conversations were about?

10 A. Like I said, just before the criminal

11 case, you know, just, "How you doing?", "When is it

12 going to happen, the case?" Those type of

13 conversations moreso. And just before this civil

14 suit got started, you know, we had discussed -- she

15 had mentioned, you know, that it's going to get

16 started and that we may get called and that type of

17 thing.

18 Q. Did they ask you to testify for them at

19 the criminal trial?

20 A. Did --

21 Q. Did the Rokeses ask you to be a witness

22 for them?

 

23 A. The Rokeses didn't. Their lawyer did.

24 Q. Okay. Did you talk to Mr. Correll about

25 your testimony?

 

Page 53

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And how many times did you talk to him?

3 A. I think twice.

4 Q. Okay. Did you discuss -- you discussed

5 your testimony with him then and the number of

6 drinks that Tracy Rokes had?

7 A. I don't know how many drinks he had.

8 Q. Okay. Well, you discussed generally

9 that whole topic, did you not?

10 A. I'm assuming.

11 Q. Were those conversations at the Rokeses'

12 house or his office?

13 A. No. One was at his office and one was

14 at our house.

15 Q. And also you testified at the trial that

16 Delonna was drunk and Tracy was in a little -- not

17 a little, but you say in a better condition than

18 she was. Do you remember that testimony?

19 A. No. I don't remember saying it like

20 that.

21 Q. Well, you do remember saying that you

22 thought Tracy was in better condition than Delonna,

23 though, don't you?

24 A. Yes, probably. I don't remember exactly

25 what I said.

Page 54

1 Q. There is no question in your mind that

2 Delonna was drunk?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Did you talk to them about the condition

5 of the lights?

6 A. Talk to who?

7 Q. To the Rokeses.

8 A. Yes, the day after.

9 Q. Was there a conversation about a

10 blinking yellow light?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Okay. Have you driven through there at

13 night when the light is blinking yellow?

14 A. No. I very rarely drive through there

15 at all.

16 Q. When you see a blinking yellow light,

17 what do you do as far as the speed and operation of

18 your car?

19 MR. LIABO: That calls for speculation

20 and it's irrelevant.

21 MR. GALLAGHER: Off the record.

22 ((Off-the-record discussion.)

23 Q. (MR. GALLAGHER) Could you go ahead? Do

24 you remember the question?

25 A. Yes. I believe so. You just slow down.

 

Page 55

1 Q. You slow down, okay. You talked a bit

2 with Mr. Liabo about under the influence. Do you

3 remember those conversations?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And I think the conclusion was that you

6 didn't know whether Mr. Rokes was under the

7 influence or not, isn't that right? You knew he

8 wasn't drunk and staggering, but you didn't know

9 whether or not he was under the influence?

10 A. I didn't feel he was.

11 Q. What does it mean to you to be under the

12 influence?

13 MR. BEVEL: Objection. It calls for an

14 answer to a legal standard.

15 Q. What does under the influence mean to

16 you?

17 A. When someone has drank enough that it

18 affects their like responses or reflexes.

19 Q. Sure. Their reaction time and their

20 judgment and this kind of thing?

21 A. And their speech and that type of thing.

22 Q. When you talked to the Rokeses, was your

23 husband present, Mr. Young, when you talked to them

24 about the accident?

25 A. Yes.

 

Page 56

1 MR. GALLAGHER: I don't have any other

2 questions. Thank you.

3 MR. BEVEL: I don't have any questions.

4 MR. KALKHOFF: No questions.

updated 01/21/17