Civil Trial Deposition

See also: Amy Abels CFPD Report
See also:
Amy Abels Criminal Trial Testimony

Page 5



23 Q. Good morning.

24 A. God morning.

25 Q. Would you tell us your full name.


Page 6

1 A. Amy Michelle Abels.

2 Q. Where do you live?

3 A. Apartment in Cedar Falls,

4 Iowa.

5 Q. What is your date of birth?

6 A. 10-24-74.

7 Q. What do you do for a living?

8 A. I work for an ophthalmologist, Dr. Mauer, an

9 assistant.

10 Q. What is your work, what do you do?

11 A. I do contact lenses, mainly. And assist the

12 doctor with pretesting patients.

13 Q. Okay. What's your educational background?

14 A. I completed high school, graduated from high

15 school in '93. And I took a year of college.

16 Q. What, where did you go to college?

17 A. At both Hawkeye and AIC.

18 Q. What did you study?

19 A. Just general ed.

20 Q. How long have you been working for Dr. Mauer?

21 A. About a year.

22 Q. Okay. You remember October 4, 1996?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You witnessed a tragic motor vehicle collision?

25 A. Yes.


Page 7

1 Q. What time of the day on October 4, 1996 did you see

2 this collision?

3 A. 11 p.m.

4 Q. Where had you been?

5 A. Where had I been?

6 Q. Where had you been?

7 A. I was visiting my mom; she lives in Cedar Falls.

8 Q. Where in Cedar Falls?

9 A. Up by the high school on Walnut Street.

10 Q. Walnut and what?

11 A. Twelfth.

12 Q. How far is that from where this collision

13 occurred?

14 A. Um, probably three, four miles.

15 Q. What time did you leave your mother's?

16 A. U, probably, I don't know, between fine and then

17 minutes before the accident.

18 Q. You had your son?

19 A. My son.

20 Q. Your son in the car?

21 A. Un , hum.

22 Q. And how old is your son?

23 A. At the time?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. Um he had to have been, oh, he was turning


Page 8

1 three. He was two.

2 Q. Okay. What rout did you follow from your

3 mother's house?

4 A. Um, I went from Walnut Street down to 18th.

5 Turned onto 18th Street and then took the 18th

6 Street, the 18th Street exit onto Highway 58.

7 Q. Okay.

8 A. Or, yeah. Highway 58.

9 Q. Is that a regular route for you from your

10 mother's house?

11 A. It was then.

12 Q. Where were you planning to go?

13 A. Home.

14 Q. Where is home?

15 A. Home at that time was in Waterloo on Robin Road.

16 Q. So were you, you were planning the to travel

17 along Highway 48?

18 A. Uh, hum.

19 Q. Is that yes?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. All right. And when were, how far along Highway

22 58 were you going to go?

23 A. Then take the exit on Greenhill going east.

24 Q. Which direction on Greenhill?

25 A. East.


Page 9

1 Q. Which direction would that be, right?

2 A. Left.

3 Q. Left, excuse me.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Where did you enter Highway 58?

6 A. On the 18th Street exit.

7 Q. How far was that from the point of the collision?

8 A. My guess would be probably a mile or so.

9 Q. Describe Highway 58 for us if you would, please.

10 A. What it look like or?

11 Q. How many lanes, direction of travel, that sort of

12 thing.

13 MR. YAGLA: Excuse me for interrupting

14 he is not from Waterloo.

15 THE WITNESS: It's a two lane going

16 each direction. And it's pretty open. Fields

17 along each side. It's fairly new. They just

18 built it not too long ago.

19 Q. (BY MR. LIABO:) Okay. What's the speed limit

20 along Highway 58?

21 A. Fifty-five.

22 Q. As you pulled onto Highway 58, did you observe

23 any other traffic?

24 A. As the time I, I wasn't even really paying

25 attention to home much traffic was around me.


Page 10

1 Q. All right.

2 A. So when I pulled on, to tell you the truth, I

3 don't remember as I was pulling onto the

4 highway.

5 Q. As you completed your turn onto Highway 58 did

6 you accelerate up to the speed limit?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What's the maximum speed you think you reached as

9 you were traveling on Highway 58?

10 A. Probably about 58.

11 Q. As some point along your route along Highway 58

12 did you become aware of other vehicles in front

13 of you?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. All right. What other vehicles did you observe

16 and where were you when you observed them?

17 A. I observed a vehicle that was in the right lane.

18 I was in the left. They were in the right lane.

19 And I observed them shortly before coming to the

20 intersection of Greenhill and 58.

21 Q. Okay. Describe the other vehicle. Do you recall

22 it's color?

23 A. It was white. And I could tell it was like a f

24 four-door car.

25 A. All right. And that vehicle was heading in the


Page 11

1 same direction you were?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. You were in the middle lane, it was in the

4 outside lane or center lane?

5 A. I was in the left lane and they were in the right

6 lane; there was just two lanes.

7 Q. Both heading in same direction?

8 A. Both heading in the same direction.

9 Q. How were you traveling in relation to that other

10 vehicle?

11 A. I would say they weren't gaining or losing on

12 me. They were pretty much, I mean we were

13 staying the same.

14 Q. Did you catch up to that vehicle at some point or

15 gain on that vehicle at some point?

16 A. No. Not, I mean not until I stopped.

17 Q. All right. Describe for us what you, what you

18 observed then as you continued to approach the

19 intersection of Greenhill Road and Highway 58,

20 please.

21 A. Okay. As I got closer to the intersection I was

22 just kind ow watching both directions as I

23 normally do, as I come to the intersection. And

24 I observed a vehicle that to me looked like they

25 were going pretty fast coming down Greenhill.


Page 12

1 And I looked and I saw that their lights were

2 flashing red so knew they should be stopping.

3 It didn't look like they were going to stop. And

4 I looked over at the vehicle that was in the

5 right-hand lane, right before the accident took

6 place to observe if they, you know, maybe saw

7 this vehicle coming or what they were doing or

8 how close they were coming. And I saw the

9 vehicle did go through the intersection and

10 collided pretty major collision. I knew it was

11 very serious.

12 Q. The intersection at 58 and Greenhill Road is

13 controlled by stop lights, is that correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. And you observed or saw flashing red lights?

16 A. uh, hum.

17 Q. That's your testimony?

18 A. Not my lights flashing but his lights.

19 Q. That's what I want to clarify. The lights that

20 you saw flashing red were for traffic traveling

21 on what road and in what direction?

22 A. For traffic traveling on Greenhill Road going

23 east or west.

24 Q. All right. So the vehicle that you saw traveling

25 at what you thought was a high rate of speed had


Page 13

1 flashing red lights, is that correct?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. And you could see them? You could see those

4 flashing, red lights from you direction?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you were heading south?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Any reason in the world that you can think of

9 from what you could observe of that intersection

10 that would prevent or would have prevented the

11 driver approaching Highway 58 along Greenhill

12 Road from seeing the flashing lights?

13 A. None. None. There was probably four or five, I

14 don't know exactly, flashing red lights. It's

15 very open. There is no trees. There is no other

16 signs hanging up there. It's very open.

17 Q. Plenty of time to observe?

18 A. Oh yes. He could see them all the way down the

19 hill.

20 Q. you are familiar with Greenhill?

21 A. Yes. I mean traveling to my parents' house so

22 much.

23 Q. You have approached that intersection from the

24 same direction of that other driver?

25 A. Numerous times.


Page 14

1 Q. Numerous times?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. When you were on your way to your parents'?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Was there any question in your mind what the

6 flashing red light meant?

7 A. No. I, I know they mean stop.

8 Q. When you say the other vehicle was traveling at a

9 fast rate of speed, what do you mean? What did

10 you observe?

11 A. To me, I know that road is 45. And to me it just

12 looked like they were going more than 45.

13 Q. How much time did you have to observe them?

14 A. Oh, probably, maybe 15, 20 seconds. Probably

15 about 20 seconds.

16 Q. And how much distance did that other vehicle

17 travel in that 20 seconds, just if you can

18 estimate.

19 A. I could see him from almost the top of that hill

20 coming down. I don't know even know how far that

21 would be, maybe barely a quarter of a mile.

22 Q. Quarter of a mile in 20 seconds or so?

23 A. Probably.

24 Q. And the hill you are talking about is a rise that

25 is to the, to the --


Page 15

1 A. T o the east. Would be South Main.

2 Q. South Main?

3 A. There is an intersection up there, too.

4 Q. Okay. And from that rise to the east of the

5 intersection, if you are traveling in a westerly

6 direction on Greenhill Road, you have a clear

7 view of the intersection and would have a clear

8 view of the flashing red lights?

9 A. Yes. Once you came through the intersection of

10 South Main and Greenhill.

11 Q. And that's a distance of a quarter to a mile or

12 more?

13 A. I would say probably. I'm not for sure, but

14 yeah.

15 Q. Okay. As you saw this vehicle, and by the way,

16 what kind of vehicle was this that you saw

17 traveling along Greenhill road? Describe it.

18 A. I know now it's a 4Runner. At the time I knew it

19 was a bigger, bigger vehicle, like a Jeep or a,

20 you know, van shaped or something bigger, at the

21 time. At the time that's, I could tell that's

22 what it looked like. I thought was maybe like a

23 Jeep.

24 Q. Like a four by four type, four-wheel drive type

25 of thing?


Page 16

1 A. Yes. I now know it's a 4Runner.

2 Q. But a short utility type of vehicle?

3 A. A. Yes. Yes.

4 Q. All right. When you saw this sport utility

5 vehicle approaching Greenhill Road and 58 with

6 the red lights flashing in its direction, where

7 was the other car that was traveling south along

8 58?

9 A. They were approaching the intersection. Um, I

10 don't know. I mean I don't know exactly what

11 point you want, but they were approaching it.

12 Q. Do you have any estimate of the speed that

13 other car as it approached the intersection?

14 A. I would say it was about 55. Because like I

15 said, they were keeping up with me, I mean they

16 weren't gaining or losing at all. I would say it

17 was pretty close to 55.

18 Q. Okay. All right. As the car entered the

19 intersection, the sport utility vehicle entered

20 the intersection at the same time?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. What happened?

23 A. I first observed that the sport utility, I could

24 tell he noticed, he saw the other vehicle. And

25 it looked like he was going to try to turn in


Page 17

1 with, in with her into the same lane, like into

2 the lane I would have been going into. So I

3 could tell he was trying to turn and I saw her

4 brake lights come on like just about that time.

5 Split second. And it looked tome like she

6 swerved just a little bit to her, that would be

7 to her right. And then they both just collided

8 and ended up on the side.

9 Q. Ended up on the side?

10 A. Ended up over towards the ditch on the right-hand

11 side.

12 Q. What did you do?

13 A. I stopped. I was, because I was going into the

14 turning lane as this was happening. And I

15 stopped and I saw that there was another vehicle

16 coming down, coming down Greenhill. And they had

17 stopped way up, farther up the road. And so I

18 thought I need to go call, get help. Call 911.

19 So I just, I immediately just went up Greenhill

20 and to South Main and called.

21 MR. LIABO: Let's mark that as exhibit

22 1.

23 (Deposition Exhibit No.1

24 marked for identification.)

25 Q. (BY MR. LIABO:) Amy the court reporter has


Page 18

1 marked as exhibit, deposition exhibit 1 an aerial

2 photograph. It's a color reproduction or color

3 photocopy of an aerial photograph. Do you

4 recognize the scene that is depicted in that

5 photograph.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. For purposes of identification, Amy, could you

8 tell us what scene is depicted in that

9 photography?

10 A. What scene?

11 Q. What scene, what is shown?

12 A. The accident occurring that I saw that day.

13 Q. Is it a photograph showing the intersection of

14 Greenhill Road and Highway 58?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. All right. And there are some vehicles that are

17 drawn in or animated or not animated but

18 reproduction of vehicles. There is also some

19 vehicles show in the photograph which have

20 nothing to do with this collision. But looking

21 at vehicles that are identified on that

22 photograph as the Rokes vehicle and the Farrell

23 vehicle and then also a vehicle driven by another,

24 witness, Miss Girsch. Do the positions of those

25 vehicles as shown in the photograph accurately


Page 19

1 depict the positions of those vehicles during the

2 accident sequence, based upon your observations

3 and recollections?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Looking at the photograph, and let's talk

6 about the position of the, what is identified as

7 the Farrell Oldsmobile approaching, all right.

8 A. Uh, hum.

9 Q. Does that position as shown in the photograph

10 accurately represent the position of the Farrell

11 vehicle as it approached the intersection?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Correct lane, is that correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. All right. And then over here along Greenhill

16 Road we have Rokes vehicle or Rokes Toyota

17 approaching westbound, is that correct?

18 A. That's correct.

19 Q. Is that a correct, the correct position of the

20 Rokes vehicle form what you would observe?

21 A. In the lane?

22 Q. Yes.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. All right. And it was in the outside lane, is

25 that correct?


Page 20

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. All right. Now the lights that you observed

3 flashing red, are they shown in the photograph?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Okay. Can you point to them, please.

6 A. They are, they are here (indicating), these right

7 here.

8 Q. Okay. What you are pointing to on the photograph

9 is the aerial view of the traffic lights that are

10 extended on a boom across the, across Greenhill

11 Road, is that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And these could have been booms extending out

14 across the north side of Greenhill Road, is that

15 correct?

16 A. Correct. Yes.

17 Q. So they would have been to your front and to your

18 right as you approached Greenhill Road?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. All right. Are there any traffic lights that

21 would have been shining in your direction as you

22 approached Greenhill Road?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And where are those lights located?

25 A. Here. (indicating.)


Page 21

1 Q. And you are pointing to a boom extending across

2 the, across Highway 58, across Greenhill Road, is

3 that correct, on the far side of Greenhill Road

4 as you approached?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And were those lights flashing any color?

7 A. They were flashing yellow.

8 Q. All right. When there are red flashing lights

9 and yellow flashing lights at an intersection,

10 who has the right of way?

11 A. The yellow flashing lights.

12 Q. Let's talk about the collision itself. Do you

13 see the two vehicles that collided in that

14 photograph?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do you see them at the pint as shown in that

17 photography where they collided?

18 A. I remember them being up farther.

19 Q. Okay. When you say up farther, what do you mean?

20 A. More farther southwest, more over here

21 (indicating).

22 O. Okay. Could you mark on the photograph with an X

23 the specific location as you recall where they

24 collided. Okay. You've done so with an X, is

25 that correct?


Page 22

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. All right. Does, do the positions of the

3 vehicles, in other words, their orientation in

4 the roadway, appear in the photograph as they

5 approached when you observed the collision?

6 A. Yes. Yes.

7 Q. All right. So that the collision happened the

8 way it's shown in the photograph, you just think

9 it happened further south?

10 A. Yes. Correct.

11 Q. All right. And with the front of the sport

12 utility vehicle colliding with the left side of

13 the, of the Oldsmobile, is that correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. Did you observe the point of impact of each

16 vehicle?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. In other words, where along each vehicle they

19 came together?

20 A. I saw them hit, yes. I, the side of the car and

21 the front of his car.

22 Q. All right. Did they collide relative to each

23 other, the point of impact, relative to each

24 other as shown in that photograph?

25 A. Yes.


Page 23

1 Q. Okay. What happened to the Oldsmobile, the car

2 that was struck by that sport utility vehicle?

3 A. It looked like it was thrown up in the air.

4 Q. Describe that for us, please.

5 A. Um, when it hit it looked like it pushed the car

6 up in the air and kind of threw it a little bit

7 of, or not a little bit of ways but quite a

8 ways. They both just slid right over here

9 (indicating).

10 Q. So the --

11 A. Al the lights went dead. I mean all their car

12 lights.

13 Q. Car lights went dead?

14 A. All the car lights.

15 Q. So the Oldsmobile was actually airborne for some

16 period of time?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Did you, do you recall how far it traveled in the

19 air?

20 A. Um, probably just, maybe 10 feet.

21 Q. Okay. After it landed what did it do?

22 A. It slid. They both slid this way

23 (indicating) kind of together. I don't remember

24 it being separate.

25 Q. And when you say this way, you are kind of


Page 24

1 pointing on the photograph in what, a

2 southeasterly, southwesterly?

3 A. Southwest.

4 Q. All right. Do you see on the photograph the,

5 where the rest position, where the Oldsmobile is

6 shown as coming to a rest following the

7 collision?

8 A. For me it was very hard to see because it was

9 very dark over here. I can't, I can't exactly

10 tell you what the cars looked like. I could just

11 see they were laying over in the ditch and I

12 don't know how close or far. It was very dark

13 from where I was to see.

14 Q. On the photograph we have the, a position labeled

15 or rest position of the Farrell Oldsmobile, and

16 that shows a blue car. And then rest position of

17 the Rokes Toyota, and that shows a white, a more of

18 a gray vehicle, is that correct?

19 A. Uh, hum.

20 Q. I mean that's what the photographs shows, right?

21 A. Yes. Yes.

22 Q. You can't tell us because it was dark?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. In this area off, along the ditch there, whether

25 that's really where the rest position was?


Page 25

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. But it's in the general direction from what you

3 could observe?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Did either vehicle roll over?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did either vehicle spin or rotate?

8 A. I would say hers, or the Oldsmobile, was

9 sliding. Looked like it was kind of rotated.

10 Q. When you, were you stopped? In other words, when

11 you saw the collision happen, did you stop?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. You came to a rest?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you looked?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Is this a well-lit intersection?

18 A. I would say it's fairly well lit.

19 Q. What was the weather conditions that evening?

20 A. It was very nice.

21 Q. Clear?

22 A. Very nice, very clear.

23 Q. After you observed the vehicles come to their

24 final resting spot what did you do?

25 A. I then turned onto Greenhill and went up and


Page 26

1 called. I first, you know, observed that this

2 car was sitting here, so I knew that they had

3 witnessed it.

4 Q. Now which car are you referring to?

5 A. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm pointing the wrong way.

6 Girsch's car.

7 Q. So you saw Girsch's vehicle there?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And did it come to a stop?

10 A. Yes. They, how this diagram is here, they were

11 stopped up farther.

12 Q. Okay. And they were, the Girsch vehicle, was

13 heading east on Greenhill Road?

14 A. Yes. Correct.

15 Q. Okay. So then you came down 58 and turned

16 right --

17 A. I turned left onto Greenhill.

18 Q. Oh, you turned left onto Greenhill?

19 A. Uh, hum. In this turning lane.

20 Q. Okay and where did you go?

21 A. I went up to South Main. I turned onto here.

22 Q. Okay. And when you say turned onto here, you

23 turned left onto Greenhill?

24 A. Turned left onto Greenhill Road.

25 Q. All right. And you went to South Main?


Page 27

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. Where?

3 A. I don't know the exact address. It was three

4 houses down on the left-hand side.

5 Q. Just went to some place to call?

6 A. Yup.

7 Q. Okay. Just a private residence?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you don't know their names?

10 A. I don't know names or --

11 Q. Okay. What did you do? You went up to this

12 house?

13 A. I went up to the house, because I saw that they

14 were sitting in their kitchen and I knocked on

15 the door and I said I need to use your phone, I

16 saw an accident. And I called 911 and reported

17 it.

18 Q. What did you do then?

19 A. Um, I asked the officer or dispatcher, whoever

20 answered the phone, what, if I needed to go back

21 to the accident. I didn't want to go back

22 because I had my little boy and I knew it looked

23 very tragic and they said no, you don't need to

24 go back, we'll contact you. So I went home.

25 Q. Did you see any movement of any people after,


Page 28

1 after the vehicles came to rest?

2 A. I didn't see anybody get out of the vehicles.

3 No. I didn't see any movement. It was very

4 dark, too. It was hard to see.

5 Q. Did the, did the, did that sport utility vehicle

6 appear to slow down at all before striking the

7 Oldsmobile?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Tell us what you saw.

10 A. Um, coming up to the intersection it looked like

11 he noticed this other vehicle as he was coming

12 into the intersection here. And he put his brake

13 lights on and he tried to swerve.

14 Q. All right. But by then it was too late?

15 A. Oh yes. Yes.

16 Q. So however fast it was going, it was too fast to

17 get to a stop or avoid the collision?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Do you have any estimate, and we talked about the

20 speed of the other vehicle, I believe you

21 testimony was it looked like he was going more

22 than 45 as the approached the intersection?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Any estimate of the speed? How much more than 45

25 did he appear to be going?


Page 29

1 A. To me it looked like he was traveling down a

2 normal highway. Like he was going 55 or

3 somewhere in that range. It looked like he was

4 just driving by a normal highway.

5 Q. Highway speed?

6 A. Like a highway speed, yes.

7 Q. It's not highway speed along there, the speed

8 limit?

9 A. No.

10 Q. And when you say you didn't want to go back to

11 the scene because you had your young son with

12 you, because that looked very tragic, what do you

13 mean?

14 A. Um, I, I knew, I didn't know, but I was pretty

15 much for sure, I didn't know how anybody would

16 live through it. I knew, I didn't know how many

17 people were involved, but it didn't look like

18 anybody would live through that and that's what I

19 mean by tragic. It looked like somebody, you

20 know, would have died in that accident.

21 MR. LIABO: I think I'm just about

22 finished.

23 (Recess taken,)

24 Q. (BY MR. LIABO:) The pavement was dry that

25 night?


Page 30

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Hadn't been any rain recently?

3 A. No.

4 Q. So that I understand, after the accident you made

5 the turn you were planning to make, is that

6 correct?

7 A. That's correct.

8 Q. In this, in this turning lane that is to the left

9 of the main travel lane, is that correct?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. Did you enter that turning lane -- is the point

12 where you entered the turning lane shown on this

13 photograph, exhibit 1?

14 A. You mean according to when the accident

15 happened?

16 Q. No. When you entered the turning lane, at some

17 point you got into that turning lane, correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Is that point, the point where you got into the

20 turning lane, shown in that photograph?

21 A. It's not marked right now.

22 Q. Or is it off the photograph?

23 A. Oh, oh, I see what you are saying.

24 Q. Yeah.

25 A. No. I would say it's on there.


Page 31

1 Q. Okay. About where, can you point to it for us?

2 A. When I entered it?

3 Q. Right.

4 A. Right up in, now it's hard to say because I don't

5 know exactly where the, but I would say right

6 about here (indicating).

7 Q. You are pointing right at the top of the

8 photograph where the edge of the photograph cuts

9 off?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. All right. That's where you would have gotten

12 into the turning lane, correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And your plan, well, you would have had to have

15 slowed down to turn left, correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And that's what you were planning to do?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Were you in the turning lane when you saw the

20 collision or were you still in the traveled lane?

21 A. I was, I mean it was just like same, same time.

22 It was, I was just turning into it.

23 Q. Okay. And in the process you were slowing down

24 to make your planned turn?

25 A. Yup.


Page 32

1 Q. Okay. When you came to a stop you were in the

2 turning lane?

3 A. Yes. Yes.

4 Q. Can you see on this photograph, is your location

5 when you observed the collision depicted on this

6 photograph?

7 A. I would say it was right, right about where this

8 picture is cut off.

9 Q. Would you be able to just mark that with a

10 rectangle. Okay. And just mark that Amy Abel if

11 you would, please. Okay. Abels, excuse me.

12 A. That's okay.

13 Q. And then where did you come to a stop?

14 A. A complete stop?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. Right up here.

17 Q. Would you please depict that then with a

18 rectangle as well. Okay. And so you have drawn

19 a rectangle and marked it Amy Abels, showing the

20 spot, or the place where you stopped your

21 vehicle?

22 A. Completely stopped, yes.

23 Q. Completely stopped your vehicle.

24 A. Yes.

25 MR. LIABO: Okay. Thank You. That's


Page 33

1 all I have.





6 Q. Miss Ables, my name is Gene Yagla, I represent

7 Tracy Rokes, who was driving the Toyota 4Runner.

8 I did not keep a copy of your trial transcript,

9 but I have reviewed it. And your testimony today

10 is different than it was in the criminal trial.

11 Are you aware of the difference?

12 MR. LIABO: I'm going to object to

13 that, Gene. If you are going to refer to the

14 trial transcript, then you need to bring it and

15 you need to ask her page and line is it.

16 MR. YAGLA: Can we borrow yours?

17 MR. HELLMAN: Join in the objection.

18 Q. (BY MR. YAGLA:) Do you want to look at page 34.

19 I think that's where It discusses the speeds of

20 the vehicles. You haven't had a chance to see

21 this, have you?

22 A. No.

23 Q. On page 34 line 11 it says, and with regard to

24 speeding you never did attribute a miles per hour

25 speed to either of the vehicles, our statement,


Page 34

1 isn't it a fact. And you answer was that's

2 correct. And then on line 15 it says, and you're

3 not intending to imply that the Rokes vehicle was

4 exceeding the speed limit, are you. And your

5 answer is I'm not saying he was exceeding. It

6 just appeared he was approaching the intersection

7 quickly.

8 If I understand your testimony today,

9 you are now saying that he was speeding?

10 A. I don't know if he was speeding. To me it looked

11 like he was, like I said there, he was going very

12 quickly.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. Very fast.

15 Q. But you are not telling us today under oath that

16 he was speeding, are you?

17 A. I don't know if he was speeding.

18 Q. And so that mean you are not telling us that he

19 was then, is that correct?

20 A. I can't say he was speeding. I don't know how

21 fast he was driving.

22 MR. YAGLA: I have no further

23 questions. Thank you.

24 MR. GALLAGHER: I'm Ed Gallagher, and I

25 represent Tammy Kleinheksel. Can I see that,


Page 35

1 Mark, that exhibit.

2 MR. LIABO: The photograph?


4 MR. LIABO: Sure.





9 Q. What you directed as Amy Abels up there, the

10 square, you are going south, is that when you

11 made those observations? Is that what that

12 depicts? Do you remember where you put that up

13 there?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Just so I get it straight. And them after the

16 accident you got something, well, you've got this

17 drawn Amy Abels, is that where you were when the

18 two cars came together then?

19 A. No. That's, that's when I actually came to a

20 complete stop and I was going to be turning,

21 after the accident.

22 Q. Okay. Now you indicated some yellow lights and

23 flashing red lights. What do you understand the

24 yellow lights to mean? Were there yellow lights

25 for you going south?


Page 36

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What do you understand those to mean?

3 A. Basically that I have the right of way; and I

4 know that yellow lights mean proceed with

5 caution.

6 Q. Okay. Were you slowing down then for the yellow

7 lights?

8 A. I was slowing down only because I was going to be

9 turning.

10 Q. Okay. Did the other care, the Farrell car, slow

11 down for the yellow lights that you saw?

12 A. No.

13 Q. And I think you told Mr. Yagla you don't know the

14 speed of either automobile?

15 A. I don't know the exact speeds, no.

16 Q. Nobody is asking you to be exact. What's your

17 best estimate, if you have an estimate, as to the

18 speed of each vehicle as they approached?

19 A. Um, I would say the Oldsmobile was approximately

20 going 55.

21 Q. That's the Farrell car?

22 A. The Farrell car.

23 Q. Uh, hum.

24 A. And Tracy's car, to me it looked like he was

25 going over 45.


Page 37

1 Q. Okay.

2 A. Like I said, it was like highway speed.

3 Q. And did both cars not slow down then prior to the

4 impact? I think you said the Rokes car did?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Did the Farrell car slow down prior to the

7 impact?

8 A. For maybe a second. I mean breaks just for a

9 second.

10 Q. would it be fair you saw brake lights going on

11 both cars?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And that was just an instant before the

14 collision?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. So it's your best judgment the Farrell car was

17 going a little faster than the Rokes car?

18 A. Yes. Probably. Yes.

19 Q. I didn't quite get your answer when Mr. Liabo

20 asked you, you didn't go back to the scene and

21 help with the people who were injured or anything

22 like that?

23 A. No I didn't.

24 Q. You had your son with you?

25 A. That's correct.


Page 38

1 Q. Did you hear any conversations or anything like

2 that from the, you didn't get close enough to

3 have heard anything?

4 A. I heard nothing.

5 Q. And nobody got out of either of the cars while

6 you were around?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Have you ever talked to my client,. Tammy

9 Kleinheksel, since this thing or saw her?

10 A. Yes. She's a patient of mine.

11 Q. Where? At Dr. Mauer's?

12 A. Yes. I have never talked to her about the

13 accident. but I mean I've, regarding other

14 things I have.

15 Q. Well, which other things --

16 A. I mean contact lenses.

17 Q. All right. Have you ever talked to any other

18 passenger in either automobile or Mr. Rokes about

19 this?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Have you heard about the injuries to the girls in

22 the car?

23 A. Um, regarding your client?

24 Q. Of course Farrell was killed, but how about

25 Tammy, do you know abut her injuries?


Page 39

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What do you know about those?

3 A. I've heard she has brain damage. And facial

4 operations.

5 Q. Okay. Did you know those girls before, of those

6 women before this accident?

7 A. No.


9 MR. GALLAGHER: That's all I have.




13 Q. You don't know from personal knowledge anything

14 about Tammy Kleinheksel's injuries, do you, just

15 be from what you have heard from other people?

16 A. Correct.

17 MR. HELLMAN: That's all I have.

18 MR. LIABO: Nothing further.



updated 12/06/16